At last! Palestinians have Israel on the ropes

[Luc Hansen]

In occupied Palestine, Netanyahu is proudly parading his apparent victory over Obama in getting him to agree to Israel finishing off 3000 housing units in the West Bank before supposedly freezing future settlements.

To be honest, once Obama appointed Rahm Emmanuel as Chief of Staff, Palestinians should have given up any hope they held for Obama. But they got seduced by the Cairo speech for a little while.

But now poor old Bibi is crying foul over Palestinians refusing to negotiate in the absence of an immediate freeze. Oh dear, poor Bibi, being bullied by those Palis again!

Bibi, of course, ignores the fact that even as Israel was supposedly negotiating a peace deal (Oslo) with a view to allowing Palestinians a viable state, it was expanding settlements at an ever increasing rate. Palestinians now know that Israel would continue to use negotiations as a cover to expand settlements even more, with the ultimate aim of gradually forcing Palestinians to leave occupied Palestine altogether.

The problem for Israel is that, in the long term, this firm Palestinian policy is very, very ominous for Israel.

Why?

For too long Palestinians have been seduced by extremists who dream of military victory over Israel. This is just cuckoo land stuff, of course. As the settlements expand, the option of a viable Palestinian state whithers on the vines. This leaves only one option for Palestinians to pursue: the option of full citizenship in historic Palestine, from the river to the sea.

If instead of futile oversized firecrackers Palestinians harnessed the modern vision of human rights and self determination, especially by organising an alternative narrative in the US to AIPAC, their struggle could be over within a couple of decades.

And they will have Bibi to thank for it.

Israel, always the more powerful entity, has two choices. It can accept the inevitability of a unified Palestine, or it can, as Benny Morris suggested Ben Gurion should have done, “finish the job,” and drive the Palestinians across the river, into Egypt, or into the sea, and suffer the opprobrium.

It would be a big gamble.

[Elaine Friedland]

Luc,

The Palestinian nationalist movement is based upon propaganda which inculcates hatred of Jews which enables the Palestinian leadership to exploit their own people. They can blame the conditions which the leadership themselves cause upon Jews. Under Arafat the money the EU sent to help the Palestinian poor ended up in foreign bank accounts for the Nationalist organization's leadership. They have not had any interest in negotiating a settlement with Israel because it would end the financial spigot. Arafat's wife had a very expensive apartment in a Parisian hotel; her lifestyle was from money stolen from funds which was supposed to help the Palestinian poor. I doubt very much if things have totally changed. However, your own hatred of Jews prevents you from seeing the real purpose the continuing strategy of the Palestinian nationalist leadership.

The concept of "historic Palestine" is a total myth.

Secretary of State Clinton has told the Palestinians that they should negotiate without preconditions.

[GABE1]

LUC:

There never was a nation called "Balestinian" There never was a country called "Balestine"

Golda Meir had it right and so did Dado Eliezer.

Jordan is Palestine, so please stop your crap.

[GABE1]

HILLEL:

I am not interacting but rather giving him a dose of his own medicine as well as the truth according to GABE.

Just more manure for him to shovel.

[Elaine Friedland]

Hillel,

I have no sympathy for people who were brought up like Luc because they are actually dangerous people who continue to spread Antisemitic propaganda;. just now it displaced to the Israeli state in order to cover up their real objective. Their propaganda can lead to violence against Jews.

Turning the "other cheek" is not a Jewish ethic.

[Frank]

I agree Hillel, Ignore him and like a fly sooner or later he will go away. But then again he can post what he feels like and with Dr. Handy, we have the choice to do as you suggest and ignore or engage him in dialog. I have no dog in this fight, albeit I have one on the side lines that nips at the heels of the others. My dog bites from both sides of his mouth. So he is the one to keep an eye on not this gut from the bottom of the earth.

[John Fisher]

The average lifespan of a common house fly is 24 to 48 hours. Eventually they die and wither.

[Frank]

The other day I spoke of my dog in this fight biting from both sides of his mouth. Well take a look at what the Hilda Beast said about the settlements while she was in Isreal and then have a look at what she said today while in Egypt, two differnet things. Both Isreal and the Palistinains better watch the hand that feeds them

[Luc Hansen]

Elaine, the last thing I want is discrimination or violence against Jews or, indeed, any people, anywhere.

As regards Palestinian nationalism, this arose in very unfortunate circumstances which sadly includes your opening sentence to some degree. The nationalism we speak of came about after abandonment by western powers - Palestinians were quite open in their view of themselves as either pan Arab or as Southern Syrian. I fully accept that. The revolt against British was probably not the best strategic option either, but everything is clearer in hindsight.

Arafat's corruption and duplicity were legendary, of course, but those sins are not unknown elsewhere, are they? The worst of Arafat was his willingness to sell Palestinians down the river (excuse the distant pun) in peace negotiations and I accept the tales Israelis like Shlomo Ben Ami recount about Arafat.

I will agree the concept of historic Palestine is a myth if you concede the same about the supposed great Biblical Jewish nation and that Ashkenazi are ancestral returnees. Then we can forget the past, accept the present and turn to the future.

I am actually currently questioning my approach to this vexed conflict, including getting involved in the differing versions of history. People are always entitled to their beliefs, of course, but they should not determine state policy, in my opinion. And the chants of anti-Semitism do hurt, as tiresome as they are. I support the cause of all indigenous populations suffering from or under colonialism, and Palestinians are one of those. Religion is irrelevant to me, except insofar as it is misappropriated to cause great suffering to others.

To Gabe1, Jordan is Palestine: I understand Bibi adheres to this view as well, so you are in good company, but Jordan's peace treaty with Israel defines its borders and Jordan has declared it no longer seeks the West Bank, so that's the end of that.

Hillel, mepeace had a different purpose to this site, and I did breach their rules once or twice, especially in the heat retaliation to eg my old mate Paul Reti - who also earned some disapproval, I understand. But that site is still, like here, intent on perpetuating the Zionist Project while I think the answer lies elsewhere.

No matter the past, myth or not, faults or not, we are entering a new phase where the original antagonists are dying off and a new generation is coming through and I place my hope in these new generations.

I have to feed the baby now. I do hope I have explained myself better than perhaps I have at other times.

[Elaine Friedland]

Luc,

To call Arafat a sellout to Israel is totally contrary to fact. Arafat never planned a peace agreement with Israel because that would have ended the supply of money to feed his corrupt habits.

Previously in your posts it has been shown that you totally twist other peoples statement's to support your Antisemitic politics. You function solely as a propagandist and hence are totally dishonest I will always treat you as a propagandist for Antisemitic ideologies.
.
A current example, is your rejection of Jewish history. Claiming that Jewish history is a myth is a standard symptom of Antisemitism

The ancient Philistine state only consisted of what is today Gaza and it was conquered by the Assyrian empire. which dispersed a large percentage of its residents.

[Islander]

The basic facr remians, unless Israel allows for a two state solution it will wind up with a jewish rhodesia situation in the west bank and calls ofr a one state solution.The right has been sleep walking israel onto the path of destruction for years.Israel must free tiself from the west bank.War with an independant palestine is far less dangerous and costly that "peace" in a one state solution.

[Islander]

Luc is no doubt motivated by a liberal chrsitian sense of superiority over the jews, and how "outdated the whole jewish thing is" it is a form of sublimated anti semitism.

[Islander]

When will the delusions of the right wing finally end?